Questions, Inconsistencies, and Story Gaps - We know they're out there. So now's the time to discuss it!

This is the thread to post those thoughts, ask those questions and discuss those 'misfires' in the animation, the storyline, the cannon . . . whatever.

This is for V3D ONLY. I'll post similiar threads in VV and LV forums.

Have at it, folks and discuss away!!!!

~AlluraP

Here's an inconsistency, the whole stinkin' plot....just kidding.

Actually, I'd like to know why they made Lance's village on a different planet/colony. I was always given the impression he was from Earth.

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Actually, I'd like to know why they made Lance's village on a different planet/colony. I was always given the impression he was from Earth.

I don't think Lance is from Earth. I distinctly recall a scene towards the end of the original series where Lance mentions he's from another planet.

Interesting. Ok, so there's a possibility that it was mentioned in the original series. That would make more sense.

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Originally posted by SGB:

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Actually, I'd like to know why they made Lance's village on a different planet/colony. I was always given the impression he was from Earth.

I don't think Lance is from Earth. I distinctly recall a scene towards the end of the original series where Lance mentions he's from another planet.

I don't recall a specific ep in LV where it says that Lance was from another planet. I do know he mentions in 'Coran's Son Runs Amuck' that his village was destroyed. But no mention of a specific planet.

In V3D I think it does mention that he wasn't from earth, but much of V3D I discount as cannon material.

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Originally posted by Princess AlluraP:

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Originally posted by SGB:

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Actually, I'd like to know why they made Lance's village on a different planet/colony. I was always given the impression he was from Earth.

I don't think Lance is from Earth. I distinctly recall a scene towards the end of the original series where Lance mentions he's from another planet.

I don't recall a specific ep in LV where it says that Lance was from another planet. I do know he mentions in 'Coran's Son Runs Amuck' that his village was destroyed. But no mention of a specific planet.

In V3D I think it does mention that he wasn't from earth, but much of V3D I discount as cannon material.

As much as we all want to discount V3D, it was a continuation of Voltron's original story line. So, the plot really can't be ignored, but the quality of the production, the designs, the acting, the idea of using CGI, the cyborg Lotor design, Stealth Voltron.....ok, most of it can be ignored, but legitimate plot points were raised as well as story backgrounds, character insight, etc should be used as canon until something better comes along.

Of course, it'll be like whether or not you count the comics as being canon since it went along with the original but deviated enough to make it its own.

quote:

Originally posted by KiethBlackLion:

As much as we all want to discount V3D, it was a continuation of Voltron's original story line. So, the plot really can't be ignored, but the quality of the production, the designs, the acting, the idea of using CGI, the cyborg Lotor design, Stealth Voltron.....ok, most of it can be ignored, but legitimate plot points were raised as well as story backgrounds, character insight, etc should be used as canon until something better comes along.

Of course, it'll be like whether or not you count the comics as being canon since it went along with the original but deviated enough to make it its own.

Granted some of it (loosely referred to) can be counted, but the first ep (Escape from Bastille 12) where Lotor is shown getting defeated was never stated in the original version. A smarter way around it to bring the audience with the writer of this would have been to have the narrator state something along the lines of 'battle after battle against Doom resulted in no permenant victory. And then came the final battle, where Lotor in utter defiance . . . " blah blah blah

In 'Final Battle', Lotor made a rather bad enemy of Haggar the Witch, yet in V3D, they seem to be chummy again. That was never explained how that happened.

Also, this thing about 'Lion spirits creating the robot lions' that we see in Trika Moons, part three. It was clearly established that Alfor created the lions. Sure, some sort of mystical power could be involved given that LV gives credence to that. But when the lions were destroyed, Allura eluded to them being 'recreated by the lion spirits as it happened long ago'. Wha--?

And what happened to Marshall Graham and the rest of the Alliance council? Disbanded in favor of the Amalgam? LOL!!

No mention of VV in any of the trips Keith made to Earth, to the Galaxy Alliance. Did they just go bye-bye? (I just scored points with all the VV fans, BTW!)

I agree there are elements that can be harvested as being connected with the cannon developement of Voltron, but I can't fully accept that V3D was a continuation of Voltron's original story concept and plot line. Too many loopholes for me. Not that it has to be ace perfect, mind you. Actually, I thought the character development was pretty good. Keith, however was too 'sticky' for me in terms of obedience. He would have broken the rules if he had to for the safety of his team and life in general.

And poor Lotor was definitely just misunderstood in V3D.

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Originally posted by Princess AlluraP:

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Originally posted by KiethBlackLion:

As much as we all want to discount V3D, it was a continuation of Voltron's original story line. So, the plot really can't be ignored, but the quality of the production, the designs, the acting, the idea of using CGI, the cyborg Lotor design, Stealth Voltron.....ok, most of it can be ignored, but legitimate plot points were raised as well as story backgrounds, character insight, etc should be used as canon until something better comes along.

Of course, it'll be like whether or not you count the comics as being canon since it went along with the original but deviated enough to make it its own.

Granted some of it (loosely referred to) can be counted, but the first ep (Escape from Bastille 12) where Lotor is shown getting defeated was never stated in the original version. A smarter way around it to bring the audience with the writer of this would have been to have the narrator state something along the lines of 'battle after battle against Doom resulted in no permenant victory. And then came the final battle, where Lotor in utter defiance . . . " blah blah blah

In 'Final Battle', Lotor made a rather bad enemy of Haggar the Witch, yet in V3D, they seem to be chummy again. That was never explained how that happened.

Also, this thing about 'Lion spirits creating the robot lions' that we see in Trika Moons, part three. It was clearly established that Alfor created the lions. Sure, some sort of mystical power could be involved given that LV gives credence to that. But when the lions were destroyed, Allura eluded to them being 'recreated by the lion spirits as it happened long ago'. Wha--?

And what happened to Marshall Graham and the rest of the Alliance council? Disbanded in favor of the Amalgam? LOL!!

No mention of VV in any of the trips Keith made to Earth, to the Galaxy Alliance. Did they just go bye-bye? (I just scored points with all the VV fans, BTW!)

I agree there are elements that can be harvested as being connected with the cannon developement of Voltron, but I can't fully accept that V3D was a continuation of Voltron's original story concept and plot line. Too many loopholes for me. Not that it has to be ace perfect, mind you. Actually, I thought the character development was pretty good. Keith, however was too 'sticky' for me in terms of obedience. He would have broken the rules if he had to for the safety of his team and life in general.

And poor Lotor was definitely just misunderstood in V3D.

Ok, I'm going into unknown territory here. For once in my life, I shall defender V3D....just call me...the V3Defender!

*cracks knuckles*

#1) Yes, it was never stated in the original series that Voltron defeated Lotor in the manner protrayed by V3D. However, V3D never stated exactly how far after the last episode of the original series that the final final battle took place. We just know that V3D took place roughly 5 years after Lotor's defeat. How many times have we seen story continuations with small gaps such as that? There was a 3 year gap between A New Hope and Empire. We know that the Hoth base was established, but how long after the Death Star blew up was the base established? It was never stated when the movies originally came out. So, it is feasible to believe that Voltron defeated Lotor AFTER the original series ended (if the episodes of the original had been allowed to continue).

#2) I'm not entirely sure you can say that Lotor and Haggar were ever "chummy" to begin with. I mean, how often did he insult her and her level of magic? In the episode where Zarkon was dying, Haggar was casting a spell to call upon ancient evil spirits. Mentally, we heard Lotor saying that he had his own witch and that he would just go along with Haggar. For all we now, Haggar could have been in contact with Lotor through some magical means during his incarceration. Or that their differences were resolved during the time frame between the final episode and the battle in which Voltron defeated Lotor.

#3) As far as the lion spirits go, I really don't have a case to defend it. The only thing I can refer to is the magical properties of the lions that was shown during the original series. Example, the Black Lion saving the space explorers as they crashed to Arus. Also, the way the outer weapons would magically appear on the lions. Other than that, I really can't defend it.

#4) If I recall, there was a scene in the first episode when Keith enters GG and tell Amalgamus that he wants to take Black Lion to investigate the pirates. Amalgamus is talking to a council of some type. Unfortunately, I can't remember who it was he was talking to. As for Marshall Graham and the council, apparently, they were put out of a job thanks to Amalgamus. Another example of technology over taking humans.

#5) VV wasn't mentioned too often in the original series either. Besides, Sven, Romelle and Bandor weren't mentioned in V3D. That doesn't mean their existance ended. It just meant that we didn't hear from them during the episode.

#6) Lotor was just a bit....confused on his role. After all, he was deliberately attacked by the VF, physically deformed for life, and wrongfully imprisoned for 5 years. What do you think that does to a role model such as him?

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Originally posted by KiethBlackLion:

Ok, I'm going into unknown territory here. For once in my life, I shall defender V3D....just call me...the V3Defender!

*cracks knuckles*

*AP grabs a bowl of double butter popcorn with Kraft Mac and Cheese flavored cheddar, finds a chair and sits back.*

AP: This ought to be good.

quote:

Originally posted by KiethBlackLion:

#1) Yes, it was never stated in the original series that Voltron defeated Lotor in the manner protrayed by V3D. However, V3D never stated exactly how far after the last episode of the original series that the final final battle took place. We just know that V3D took place roughly 5 years after Lotor's defeat. How many times have we seen story continuations with small gaps such as that? There was a 3 year gap between A New Hope and Empire. We know that the Hoth base was established, but how long after the Death Star blew up was the base established? It was never stated when the movies originally came out. So, it is feasible to believe that Voltron defeated Lotor AFTER the original series ended (if the episodes of the original had been allowed to continue).

I could go with that, EXCEPT for the fact that at least the gap between New Hope and Empire made some sort of sense. While I understand the concept, I don't totally think it was executed well enough. So then somewhere in this 'gap of time' they changed uniforms and helmets. (and did I happen to mention that I didn't like the 'lion helmet' concept?? )

Okay - half a point for that battle to you KBL.

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Originally posted by KiethBlackLion:

#2) I'm not entirely sure you can say that Lotor and Haggar were ever "chummy" to begin with. I mean, how often did he insult her and her level of magic? In the episode where Zarkon was dying, Haggar was casting a spell to call upon ancient evil spirits. Mentally, we heard Lotor saying that he had his own witch and that he would just go along with Haggar. For all we now, Haggar could have been in contact with Lotor through some magical means during his incarceration. Or that their differences were resolved during the time frame between the final episode and the battle in which Voltron defeated Lotor.

Haggar was forever trying to get her hands on power, and if she thought that Lotor was the way to get it, she'd side with him. Perhaps 'Chummy' was too descriptive of a term to use. My bad. Perhaps, 'usery' would be more atuned to what kind of relationship they had. In either case, Haggar was totally miffed with him at the end of S1-LV. Do we then consider that S2-LV came after S1-LV, which would then give credence to the fact that prehaps Lotor and Haggar made up in some fashion.

However, when did the old witch start to 'hover' on a cloud? And where's Blue Cat? Eaten by a Robeast, perhaps? Or maybe he was killed off and it was never explained. Gaps! Yes! Tons!!


Okay, another 'half' point for you, KBL.

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Originally posted by KiethBlackLion:

#3) As far as the lion spirits go, I really don't have a case to defend it. The only thing I can refer to is the magical properties of the lions that was shown during the original series. Example, the Black Lion saving the space explorers as they crashed to Arus. Also, the way the outer weapons would magically appear on the lions. Other than that, I really can't defend it.

This point's all mine!! MWAHAHAAH!!!

Yes, the magic properties are what stopped the team from crashing to Arus in the damaged Doom cruiser. And weapons magically appearing on the lions? I'd have to go with the pilots ordering that somehow. No credit was ever given to magic on that account.

But even so, Alfor clearly was given credit over and over again in LV as being the creator and builder of Voltron.

No points on that.

quote:

Originally posted by KiethBlackLion:

#4) If I recall, there was a scene in the first episode when Keith enters GG and tell Amalgamus that he wants to take Black Lion to investigate the pirates. Amalgamus is talking to a council of some type. Unfortunately, I can't remember who it was he was talking to. As for Marshall Graham and the council, apparently, they were put out of a job thanks to Amalgamus. Another example of technology over taking humans.

I believe that was the third ep or even further in. I never really got the impression taht they were a GG council, perhaps and advisory board of peeons. Amalgamus had the reigns to hold and he received his 'okays' if you will from the 900 Alliance planets in the 'Amalgum'. (whatever the heck that was).

Ahem . . .

Anyway, if such a council was in existence, surely they would have taken over when Amalgamus was incapacitated by Zarkon. Instead, Zarkon took over the operations of GG after the attack that devastated much of Garrison. (which Zarkon handily blamed on the Voltron Force).

Wouldn't someone question Zarkon's authority, especially if he put his son, Lotor, in charge of patroling about, post destruction? And Lotor was just accused of treasonous acts against the Alliance. A red flag should have been thrown.

Yes, truly another example of Humans being replaced by robots.

Half a point to you for your argument, KBL.

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Originally posted by KiethBlackLion:

#5) VV wasn't mentioned too often in the original series either. Besides, Sven, Romelle and Bandor weren't mentioned in V3D. That doesn't mean their existance ended. It just meant that we didn't hear from them during the episode.

True, but, I cite for your memory's pleasure the references that Pidge made about his brother, Chip. And let's not forget the final episode of S1-LV that brought over VV with references to that group.

And even though Sven, Romelle and Bandor (Nanny, and Allura's beloved space mice) never were mentioned in V3D, yes they did exist, but it would have been nice for the fans to have 'felt' that they did, instead of the vague introduction of 'Queen Ariella', the first Queen of Planet Arus. So what happened to the first King that Coran makes mention of in "My Brother Is a Robeast"? Is that Ariella's husband? Hmmmm ... there go those potholes again . . .

Half point back at you.

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Originally posted by KiethBlackLion:

#6) Lotor was just a bit....confused on his role. After all, he was deliberately attacked by the VF, physically deformed for life, and wrongfully imprisoned for 5 years. What do you think that does to a role model such as him?

You get the full point here. I'm so glad you fleshed this out. Now maybe the rest of us will see this thing clearly for what it is.



Let's add this up:

KBL: 3 points
AP: 3 points


Lotor: (to KBL and AP) Well, it appears you both are evenly matched . . . except when it comes to brains!!!

*AP clunks KBL in the head with a rock*

A POINT FOR ME!!!! I WIN!!!!!!!! I WIN!!!!

*rubs head* Taking cues from a Terminator prototype....

Minus 2 points from AP's score.

Ok, in my last defense of V3D, I say we come to a compromise. Half of V3D can be taken as cannon, the other half as creative licensing and lack of thorough research on the episodes.

Although, I'd like to point out that some concepts, such as the new flight suits, and Haggar floating on a cloud could be construed as "always being like that" similar to the movie Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz. In which, the Gundams were redesigned in terms of "always being like that" yet the story lines, character backgrounds, etc were still in line with the series. Wing Zero Custom is still the Wing Zero from the show, just the audience is meant to think that the redesigned look has always been there.

Anyway, I'm off to find some aspirin.

*AP taps finger to chin*

Now, how did I lose two points here??? Hmmm . . .

*shrugs shoulders*

Okay, a draw it is. Sorry 'bout the bop in the head!

Ok. Now that's settled....what is our next question?

Yes, bring'em on. KBL and I are ready to debate it out for you before your very eyes.

*does his best Rocky impression*

Uh...maybe I'll debate, AP...maybe I won't, you know.

LIONEEEEEEESSE!

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Originally posted by KiethBlackLion:

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Originally posted by Princess AlluraP:
Also, this thing about 'Lion spirits creating the robot lions' that we see in Trika Moons, part three. It was clearly established that Alfor created the lions. Sure, some sort of mystical power could be involved given that LV gives credence to that. But when the lions were destroyed, Allura eluded to them being 'recreated by the lion spirits as it happened long ago'. Wha--?

#3) As far as the lion spirits go, I really don't have a case to defend it. The only thing I can refer to is the magical properties of the lions that was shown during the original series. Example, the Black Lion saving the space explorers as they crashed to Arus. Also, the way the outer weapons would magically appear on the lions. Other than that, I really can't defend it.

Ah, what the heck. I'll play, too. This post is very speculative, but it's fun to stitch apparent continuity gaffs together.

Throughout VDotU and V3D, the lion was a prominent symbol on Planet Arus. It seems likely that the original, stone Castle of Lions and its underlying crypt were centuries old. If so, then the lion was likely a prominent symbol on Planet Arus for at least centuries.

We know that Voltron was part-robot, part-magic.

Perhaps the "lion spirits" represented a magical force that existed on Planet Arus long before the reign of King Alfor. Perhaps the royal family of Planet Arus inherited knowledge and awareness of the lion spirits, and in so doing, gained the ability to harness their magic in some limited fashion. Presumably each successive generation learned more and more about the lion spirits and their magic, culminating in King Alfor, who harnessed this awareness and magic and fused it with Arus' advancing technology in the creation of Voltron.

Perhaps Voltron's initial "sentience" was the five lion spirits acting as one. We don't know with any certainty whether Voltron had always been designed to separate into five robot lions. V3D would seem to suggest that it was designed with this capability. Even if it wasn't, it's clear by observation that Voltron looks like five colored components, each with a lion head, so perhaps each "lion spirit" resided within a lion head, regardless of whether Voltron could actually separate.

So Alfor constructed Voltron and the robot lions (either before or after Haggar's spell was cast), but the lion spirits not only enabled this in part, but were in fact Voltron's and the lions' "breath of life."

Perhaps this is a stretch, but it works for me.