It's all too easy to rip on Voltron: The Third Dimension, but in that series' defense, we should keep in mind two factors:

1. The show was on the leading edge of 3D CGI. V3D was one of the first -- if not the first -- entirely 3D CGI series, and one of the first -- if not the first -- 3D CGI series which utilized motion capture for much of its character animation. In many ways the show was like Babylon 5, the early VFX of which sometimes looked horrible. B5 and V3D got the industry's feet wet in the 3D CGI field.

As pioneering as V3D was visually, the fact that V3D was a 3D CGI series placed several constraints on the show's format, cast and stories. 3D character modeling and animation are very expensive and time-consuming today, and this was more true in the '90s. For this reason, the number of characters had to be kept to a minimum, and the level of detail had to be minimized as well. Amalgamus was a dramatic necessity, because it would not have been feasible to model and animate a conference room full of Galaxy Garrison officers. Allura rarely wore a dress or wore her hair down, because cloth and hair animation were much more difficult at that time than they are today. The Voltron Force helmets obscured the team members' mouths because lip-synching was expensive and time-consuming.

2. Many of us watched V3D with nostalgia-enhanced memories of the original show. I've been collecting and watching the DVDs of the original series, and while it's still fun, it's not exactly insightful or thought-provoking. I'm not knocking on anyone who worked on the original show -- I'm just pointing out that it was a kids' show. Period. End of story. V3D was also a kids' show. Period. For every annoying Amalgamus storyline in V3D, there was an annoying Space Mice storyline in the original show. Both shows suffered from the same formulaic structure: lions fight Robeast, lions are worn down, lions form Voltron, Voltron uses a bunch of weapons-of-the-week to varying levels of success, Voltron forms sword, Robeast bites dust. As I recall, V3D strayed from the formula more often than the original show did -- a good thing in my book.

Was Voltron: The Third Dimension a great series? No. Was it a good kids' show? Yes.

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1. The show was on the leading edge of 3D CGI. V3D was one of the first -- if not the first -- entirely 3D CGI series, and one of the first -- if not the first -- 3D CGI series which utilized motion capture for much of its character animation. In many ways the show was like Babylon 5, the early VFX of which sometimes looked horrible. B5 and V3D got the industry's feet wet in the 3D CGI field.

This is a good point and no one I believe is disputing that fact. At least I'm not. I know that CGI was a fairly new animated technology that has, like a good wine, fermented over the years. Today's technology (I'm thinking of Final Fantasy series on PS systems) is stellar in terms of presentation and quality. If Voltron were done like that, I would not be unhappy in the least.

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As pioneering as V3D was visually, the fact that V3D was a 3D CGI series placed several constraints on the show's format, cast and stories. 3D character modeling and animation are very expensive and time-consuming today, and this was more true in the '90s.

Being that I am married to a man who is up to date on this kind of technology, I was familiar with the financial constraints, as well as formatting issues. Anything computer-generated is a given when it comes to budget strains and woes. Corners often have to be cut to make the budget, sometimes to the sacrifice in quality.

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For this reason, the number of characters had to be kept to a minimum, and the level of detail had to be minimized as well.

I don't necessarily agree with this. It could have been just as easy to make Keith look more like Keith then he did. Sacrificing continuity for the sake of budget is never a good idea. It tends to get boo'd more times than not.

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Amalgamus was a dramatic necessity, because it would not have been feasible to model and animate a conference room full of Galaxy Garrison officers.

Then why have GG at all? Okay - let's say this is correct, and it is. It is expensive the more pieces you add to the pie. However, it was established that Marshall Graham was the main GG guy. Why not have a view screen with his appearing every so often to speak to the VF? Why all the noise and controversy of putting the Voltron Force on trial, even if it was because Zarkon had control over Amalagamus in an effort to taint the galaxy's opinion of the Voltron Force, thus gaining momentum to get what he wanted . . . full control over the universe. And what better way to do it than from the inside?

But the story lines were . . . pardon my saying so . . . HORRIBLE. They were unbelievable in most cases. GG would never let a hardened criminal like King Zarkon become its 'Minister of Affairs'. Oh please.

GG, I'm not striking out at your opinion, but posting my point, since this topic more or less calls for conversation rebuttal or agreement.

Anyway ... I digress.

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Allura rarely wore a dress or wore her hair down, because cloth and hair animation were much more difficult at that time than they are today. The Voltron Force helmets obscured the team members' mouths because lip-synching was expensive and time-consuming.

Yes - agreed. Allura in V3D is often in her metallic blue uniform. (guess she got tired of the pink??)

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2. Many of us watched V3D with nostalgia-enhanced memories of the original show.

For anyone that wants to bother to go back in time on this, I have posted here on this forum before that I really thought the music was pretty good, and the lions looked good as well in V3D. I never disputed that. But for as much nostalgia that I had, I couldn't get over the fact that the characters, though we knew who they were, some didn't quite 'fit' themselves.

Coran as an example. He looked more like a military leader than a dignitary. And if he changed to being a military leader, sure as shootin' that the audience didn't know that. The mark of a good written story is to bring your audience with you, even if change is occurring. That way, the audience isn't lost. V3D just didn't quite do that for me.

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I've been collecting and watching the DVDs of the original series, and while it's still fun, it's not exactly insightful or thought-provoking. I'm not knocking on anyone who worked on the original show -- I'm just pointing out that it was a kids' show. Period. End of story. V3D was also a kids' show. Period.

Thanks for reminding us. And I'd also like to say that the 'kids' that watched it were also the adults of today. And frankly, I think what kids watched, even back in the late 90's, was more violent then Voltron V3D was.

Voltron was originally animated by Toei in Japan. In the 80's, a lot of violence was cut from the show or it wouldn't have made it on the air. I find Go Lion much more interesting as an adult and it makes more sense when you see it in its original format.

But I'm getting real tired of people making the point of 'Its just a kids TV show . . . Period.' Look around you. Who are primarily the members of this forum? Kids????? Nope. Adults, my dear. And while Voltron should be marketed for all ages, the majority of the fans are . . . adults. Period.

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For every annoying Amalgamus storyline in V3D, there was an annoying Space Mice storyline in the original show.

Frankly, I'd rather tolerate the space mice. At least they didn't make themselves sound like silly asses when they spoke. Amalagamus was a useless part of the Voltron storyline, IMHO, and I'll state that plaining until the day I'm killed by a robeast in battle.

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Both shows suffered from the same formulaic structure: lions fight Robeast, lions are worn down, lions form Voltron, Voltron uses a bunch of weapons-of-the-week to varying levels of success, Voltron forms sword, Robeast bites dust. As I recall, V3D strayed from the formula more often than the original show did -- a good thing in my book.

Do you have V3D on VHS? I do. I've taped them all from TV and I've watched them recently since the Marks script, and I guess I'm not following what you mean here. Perhaps you can elaborate a bit on this point.

V3D, in terms of battle formula, followed basically the same style as the animation. Weapons were the same with the exception of Stealth Voltron (again for anyone that cares to look back in years of my opinion of this, I've said before that Stealth Voltron was initially a good idea - until it got used in every episode. Then, it just became annoying and boring. I pretty much found it to be similar in content and episode resolution, with the exception of a few instances where part twos and threes were required.

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Was Voltron: The Third Dimension a great series? No. Was it a good kids' show? Yes.

Indeed it was - because very few of us believed the storylines. And if you ask some of the 'kids' from back then too, they'll tell you the stories didn't do it for them either.

Could V3D have been better, even with the financial constrictions? Sure it could have. Starting off with keeping with the canon story.

Lion spirits creating the robot lions of Voltron? Where in the original animation was that stated? Magic was part of what Voltron was, that's true. But Alfor created the lions. Its been said over and over again.

In the last of the Trika Moon storylines, Allura was heard saying that the lion spirits created the robot lions long ago, and now, they've done it again.

Wrong.

I could go into many examples of why Voltron V3D didn't work - and none of which would majorly center around the CGI animation. That was new. The established story was not. Variations that 'work' are good in my book, but shouldn't leave the fans scratching their heads and saying "WTH was that all about?"

Again, change is good if its for the good and if its explained so that the audience comes with it. V3D had too many changes that weren't explained. Budget or otherwise, makes no difference. Tell the story, and tell it right, or don't tell it at all.

But you do make some good thought-provoking points GG. I hope I have as well.

My two Arusian cents worth of opinion.
~AlluraP

I just want to correct one little thing.

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by Galaxy Garrison:
V3D was one of the first -- if not the first -- entirely 3D CGI series, .

Unless I'm mistaken (and someone correct me if I am wrong) one of the first all CGI shows was ReBoot (which aired from 1994 to 2001 according to Wikipedia). Beast Wars: Transformers (debuted in 1996) was also full CGI. Both of these were prior to V3D, which aired in 1998.

If you like V3D and wish to defend it, then by all means that's your perogative. However, V3D was NOT one of the first shows to go full CGI. As stated previously, other shows (with better writing and better graphics) came before it.

In all seriousness, it really wasn't the CGi that ruined the show, it was the writting. In the original series, the writting had to conform to the animation. In V3D, the animation was (should have been) conformed to the writing.

Both ReBoot and Beast Wars represent how successful a CGI show can be. The Adventures of Jimmy Neutron and Viva Pinata are more recent shows that represent the success of CGI.

Heck, even Donkey Kong Country was a CGI show that had roughly 40 episodes and that debuted in 1998. DK Country received critical acclaim for the fact that the show characters matched almost perfectly to the video game characters (according to Wikipedia).

I don't solely blame the CGI for the downfall of V3D, but it didn't exactly help it much.

Princess AlluraP, thanks for the thoughtful reply. I hope my post didn't seem to be an "assault" on people who rip on V3D. For what it's worth, I was not a fan of the show.

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Originally posted by Princess AlluraP:

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For this reason, the number of characters had to be kept to a minimum, and the level of detail had to be minimized as well.

I don't necessarily agree with this. It could have been just as easy to make Keith look more like Keith then he did. Sacrificing continuity for the sake of budget is never a good idea. It tends to get boo'd more times than not.

The cast was certainly smaller. I only watched episodes from the first season of V3D (as the local affiliate stopped airing it after season one), but I recall only about a dozen characters -- Keith, Lance, Pidge, Allura, Hunk, Coran, Zarkon, Lotor, Haggar, Lotor's two lackeys, Amalgamus and Alfor's #$#%#% ghost.

I agree that the characters could have -- and perhaps should have -- resembled their original series incarnations more closely. I speculate that the V3D makers deliberately avoided the anime look in order to make the new show more visually distinctive. For what it's worth, even when V3D first aired, I thought all the characters were "ugly."

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Originally posted by Princess AlluraP:

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Amalgamus was a dramatic necessity, because it would not have been feasible to model and animate a conference room full of Galaxy Garrison officers.

Then why have GG at all? Okay - let's say this is correct, and it is. It is expensive the more pieces you add to the pie. However, it was established that Marshall Graham was the main GG guy. Why not have a view screen with his appearing every so often to speak to the VF? Why all the noise and controversy of putting the Voltron Force on trial, even if it was because Zarkon had control over Amalagamus in an effort to taint the galaxy's opinion of the Voltron Force, thus gaining momentum to get what he wanted . . . full control over the universe. And what better way to do it than from the inside?

Amalgamus was probably just cheaper to model and animate than another human would have been. I'd have preferred that they ditch Alfor's #$@%# ghost and create a human at GG, but I wasn't on the staff.

For the record, I hated Amalgamus, and the first-season plot about him being reprogrammed.

I'm not arguing that V3D was a great show... only that it has probably been criticized a bit too harshly.

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Originally posted by Princess AlluraP:
But the story lines were . . . pardon my saying so . . . HORRIBLE. They were unbelievable in most cases. GG would never let a hardened criminal like King Zarkon become its 'Minister of Affairs'. Oh please.

I just finished watching the last episodes of Voltron, Defender of the Universe. In one of the final stories, Merla decides to become good, and Lotor pretends to be good. Although the Voltron Force is suspicious of Lotor, they begin to believe him in a remarkably short time. They're also duped into leading an assault on a "false" Planet Doom -- an inane idea, since they'd previously attacked Planet Doom and knew its true location as early as the first episodes.

All I'm saying is that, yes, V3D had story elements that were tough to swallow, but so did the original series. The example I gave above could be rationalized by the fact that the later episodes were cobbled together from stock footage and crappy animation farmed out to Korea, but there were a lot of "out of left field" stories throughout the original series. The key difference may have been that the original show's stories were mostly one-offs and not continuing "arcs."

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Originally posted by Princess AlluraP:
GG, I'm not striking out at your opinion, but posting my point, since this topic more or less calls for conversation rebuttal or agreement.

No problemo. I welcome the discussion.

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Originally posted by Princess AlluraP:
But for as much nostalgia that I had, I couldn't get over the fact that the characters, though we knew who they were, some didn't quite 'fit' themselves.

Coran as an example. He looked more like a military leader than a dignitary. And if he changed to being a military leader, sure as shootin' that the audience didn't know that. The mark of a good written story is to bring your audience with you, even if change is occurring. That way, the audience isn't lost. V3D just didn't quite do that for me.

V3D did change several elements from the original show. Another was the Castle of Lions being styled after the metallic castle from the old show, yet being constructed of stone.

I, too, would have preferred that the major changes be explained, but the show did air over a decade after the original series, and it was likely targeted to a younger age group than those who had grown up watching the original show.

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Originally posted by Princess AlluraP:
But I'm getting real tired of people making the point of 'Its just a kids TV show . . . Period.' Look around you. Who are primarily the members of this forum? Kids????? Nope. Adults, my dear. And while Voltron should be marketed for all ages, the majority of the fans are . . . adults. Period.

I suspect that the majority of fans are adults only because they were kids when the show first aired. I still love the original series, but it is just a kids' show. I hesitate to generalize, so I'll speak for myself. If the original show were in first run right now, I, as a thirtysomething male, would never have become a fan. I'm not knocking Voltron, Defender of the Universe specifically. I feel the same way about Transformers, G. I. Joe, and other shows that I regard with fondness.

As devoted as we may be as fans, the age group in which we are now -- and the age group in which we were in the late '90s -- probably weren't the target demographic when the original Voltron aired, or when V3D first aired.

Voltron could be reinvented to appeal to many age groups. I hope it is, and I suspect that the upcoming feature film is an attempt at that.

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Originally posted by Princess AlluraP:

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Both shows suffered from the same formulaic structure: lions fight Robeast, lions are worn down, lions form Voltron, Voltron uses a bunch of weapons-of-the-week to varying levels of success, Voltron forms sword, Robeast bites dust. As I recall, V3D strayed from the formula more often than the original show did -- a good thing in my book.

Do you have V3D on VHS? I do. I've taped them all from TV and I've watched them recently since the Marks script, and I guess I'm not following what you mean here. Perhaps you can elaborate a bit on this point.

V3D, in terms of battle formula, followed basically the same style as the animation. Weapons were the same with the exception of Stealth Voltron (again for anyone that cares to look back in years of my opinion of this, I've said before that Stealth Voltron was initially a good idea - until it got used in every episode. Then, it just became annoying and boring. I pretty much found it to be similar in content and episode resolution, with the exception of a few instances where part twos and threes were required.

Disclaimer: I've only seen episodes from the first season of V3D, and I only saw them when they first aired. Nonetheless, the continuing Amalgamus/Zarkon plot, whether enjoyable or not, was outside the formula, and I recall at least one incident in which the Voltron Force didn't have to resort to the Blazing Sword -- or perhaps even to forming Voltron at all. I admit that my recollection is a bit hazy on these points.

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Originally posted by KiethBlackLion:
I just want to correct one little thing.

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by Galaxy Garrison:
V3D was one of the first -- if not the first -- entirely 3D CGI series, .

Unless I'm mistaken (and someone correct me if I am wrong) one of the first all CGI shows was ReBoot (which aired from 1994 to 2001 according to Wikipedia). Beast Wars: Transformers (debuted in 1996) was also full CGI. Both of these were prior to V3D, which aired in 1998.

If you like V3D and wish to defend it, then by all means that's your perogative. However, V3D was NOT one of the first shows to go full CGI. As stated previously, other shows (with better writing and better graphics) came before it.

You've just supported the statement that V3D was one of the first 3D CGI shows.

My point is, the excuse that V3D was one of the first all CGI shows doesn't excuse the fact that it wasn't of better quality. The relatively new animation-technology had been used more successfully on other shows prior to V3D.

The CGI on V3D wasn't of better quality because the time and money and effort wasn't invested like it should have been. Voltron has a history of not receiving the support that it should to be successful.

The re-done CGI opening for the New Adventures of Voltron made the Voltron Force look better than V3D.

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Originally posted by Galaxy Garrison:
Disclaimer: I've only seen episodes from the first season of V3D, and I only saw them when they first aired. Nonetheless, the continuing Amalgamus/Zarkon plot, whether enjoyable or not, was outside the formula, and I recall at least one incident in which the Voltron Force didn't have to resort to the Blazing Sword -- or perhaps even to forming Voltron at all. I admit that my recollection is a bit hazy on these points.

I think you're right about one eps where they didn't form Blazing Sword, and I think it was in the second season, but off hand, I can't remember which one it was. Sorry 'bout that.

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For what it's worth, even when V3D first aired, I thought all the characters were "ugly."

LOL!!

I understand, its just conversation, and no, I wasn't feeling assaulted. We need something to talk about around here, and I don't feel you're being combative in the least. This is good conversation, and I hope everyone takes it as that.

V3D lacked much IMHO, the story line being the biggest. But its good to hear you weren't really a V3D fan, per say. I was starting to worry!

*puts thermomator away*

But seriously, there were elements I liked that people didn't. The music and the lions' look was done well, I thought. But most would disagree with me. And that's okay.

I preferred some of the story ideas, such as Zarkon taking over GG from the inside, but they weren't executed very well. A prime example, Lotor is talking to a shadowy figure on the monitor who si inside GG. The shadow is a clear image of Zarkon's head (and I don't think they changed his voice very much). Excuse me, but if you're trying to keep your audience guessing (kids or not), then you just ruined the surprise.

I liked the story where Haggar turned Keith into a mindless savage. But again, the "magic" of the lions saved the day again. A little rushed and convenient.

It was just bad execution.

The lions just looked anorexic but Voltron looked bloated. Try to figure that one out.

One thing in V3D that always bugged me is that Queen Ariella states Allura learnt to fly the Blue Lion as a child, yet it's clear in the original series that she never flew Blue Lion until Episode 7 "The Lion Has New Claws".



V3D is an indefensible mess of a show.

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Originally posted by Princess AlluraP:
Do you have V3D on VHS? I do.

It turns out I do have two first-season episodes on VHS after all. Yesterday I dug through my VHS collection and found "V002," containing the episodes "Building the Forces of Doom" and "Lost Souls." I rewatched "Building the Forces of Doom," and I thought it was as enjoyable as a typical episode of Voltron, Defender of the Universe, although yes, Amalgamus was annoying.

It would be fun if Amalgamus had been revealed to be a "sleeper robeast," either constructed or altered by Haggar before she hid in the dream dimension before the series began.

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Originally posted by Galaxy Garrison:
It would be fun if Amalgamus had been revealed to be a "sleeper robeast," either constructed or altered by Haggar before she hid in the dream dimension before the series began.

Okay now that I'd go for!! Actually, as the show progressed, I thought they'd reveal Amalgie as that. But he was supposed to be an agent of the alliance. Whoa! Pretty poor choic! And yes, he is very annoying.

aside froim lotor being robotised and the lack of cossack and merla i likeds v3d

I found the plots deeper (hunk resenting getting made fun of, haggar capitalizing on it, sabage keith were much deeper than the average Voltron ep.

I also loved that Zarkon was pulling the strings, im gonna disagree with allura on they wouldnt let him into the GA

look at modern governments, money does indeed talk, and it speaks very loudly.

Also I love the fact that HAggar and Alfor had an affair, then he decided he was a king and oculdnt be with her.

Maybe its because of all the 'hes just a pilot, shes a princess' fics its nice to seethe other side of the coin

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Originally posted by Coldwin:
I also loved that Zarkon was pulling the strings, im gonna disagree with allura on they wouldnt let him into the GA

I tend to agree with you, Coldwin. As silly as it is for anyone to trust Zarkon enough to put him in a position of authority within the Galaxy Alliance -- and seemingly to pardon him for the years of war that he spearheaded -- it's not entirely inconsistent with the naivete and forgiving nature of the Galaxy Alliance and the Voltron Force as demonstrated from time to time during the original series.